Pakistani JF-17 A Thunder OR A Blunder

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Pakistan has witnessed new defense acquisitions in this decade than any other, and in the center of it all is the new fighter which was designed by China with partial funding from Pakistan. It is formally known as JF-17 Thunder. When the fighter was in development, Pakistani online communities were jumping with excitement comparing it with its arch rival India’s modern combatants Su-30MKI, Mig-29S & Mirage-2000H. There were claims of it featuring western Radars and long range missiles, & Chinese ordering some due to its superior capabilities. But the reality is far from it.

China having spent significant amount of money into a fighter which it is never going to use, most probably forced Pakistan to accept its avionics to offset some its development costs. Chinese who are known for their self reliance first and quality next, are further downgrading JF-17s capabilities with their poorly copy-pirated avionics. Along with their dubious weapons, any chance of JF-17 maintaining BVR edge over its adversary’s front-line combatants, for the most part, is unlikely.


Even in close combat JF-17 lacks what it takes to win the fight. Its spine, & wings bearing resemblance(in wing twist & wing area) to a fighter which china knows inside out, the J-7, doesn’t have wing twist nor does it have enough area to provide a low wing loading. Its performance during low speeds and high alphas would be very dangerous for the pilot indeed. It has a Maximum G loading of only 8, as claimed by PAC. Its thrust to weight ratio is another negative point. When its arch rival, the Indian Air Force(IAF), was overtly critical of Tejas for having a low Thrust to Weight ratio, maybe they should have compared it with JF-17 which has even less, even with Emergency Thrust. Pakistan Aeronautical Complex(PAC) proudly displays the RD-93’s “Combat thrust with afterburner” as 19,200lbf, while the whole defense community knows RD-93’s thrust is 18,300lbf and the only real thrust increase was achieved with its new re-designed Sea Wasp RD-33MK engines- which has been explicitly stated by Klimov. However, Klimov’s RD-33 series 3(or series 2?), whose avatar is RD-93 with re-positioned Gear boxes, has a provision for emergency thrust which Klimov says can produce 8700kgf(~19200lbf) in their officially released document. They further state that as “Take-off emergency mode”. So the mentioned thrust can only be used during take-off where the Air is denser, and also only during emergency situations since it would seriously lower the engine’s lifespan. This is a far cry from PAC's “Combat thrust” claim. Why this is being stated is because, the engines(bought by the Chinese after pressurizing the Russians) are the only non-Chinese & non-Pakistani component, and even there they have lied about its capabilities. Hence the true, lower than published, specifications of Chinese and Pakistani components are open to any one’s guesses. In any case, the close combat capabilities of JF-17 is below average or average at best.


The next Achilles heal is JF-17’s speed. For a good interception, speed is an important criteria. However JF-17’s max speed is Mach 1.6 which is claimed by PAC. This indicates that JF-17 is draggier. When compared, their F-7s(Reverse engineered Mig-21s) have higher speed of mach 2+ with a lower thrust engine. The IAF fighters which it is going to face, all have speeds greater than the Thunder.


So why is Pakistan still inducting more and more of this fighter, which its critics increasingly call it Junk Fighter – 17 ? The answer may lie with Pakistan’s recent trauma & its psyche. Having sanctioned by the U.S, the star of their airforce, the F-16s were severally hit by lack of spares and most of the time grounded. The other 2 sources to procure modern Aircraft- Russia, have been sealed off due to the legacy of Soviet era friendship, current market in India & India’s pressure- and the other source, the European Union, for their extremely high costs. The third source, the Chinese, at that time were still flying their reverse engineered Mig-21s. In those circumstances, “Never again” was the motto of PAF and it instantly jumped into the project of further reversing the reverse engineered Mig-21, known as Super-7(a.k.a Super F-7) to obtain self reliance. The result of that project is the JF-17. So the decision was appropriate at that time, in those situations. However now with China having developed the J-10, and going by the recent reports of offering ToT(Transfer of Technology) to Pakistan, one wonders why are the Pakistanis still ordering 250 planes. Is the trauma of F-16 sanctions so high that they don’t even trust the Chinese? This can't be the case because they still need the Chinese to procure the RD-93 engines for them, even after the Chinese transfer all their associated JF-17 tech to PAC. So why...? The answer lies with their ego/psyche rather than the trauma. Unlike J-10, Pakistan shares copyright to JF-17 and that, for some weird reason, gives them something to celebrate about. This is strange for the reason, war machines are for fighting wars and achieving tactical & strategic objectives, not for gloating about who holds the copyrights. When JF-17 comes face to face with MKI or SMT, there won’t be much to celebrate about it, or the few millions if at all it earns though exports. In the end, it’s all about defending ones homeland from the enemy, and not copyrights.

48 comments:

khalil said...

It seems this articles is written by some ignorant Indian

Fahad said...

if it is really a junk fighter then why so many countries want it egypt and turkey are interested in joint production of jf17.well i am a doctor and can diagnose that indians are in a state of denial about pakistan acquisition and i bet that they will soon come up with such ignorant articles about saab erieye and f16 dr. fahad

Anonymous said...

Jf 17 is replacement of f 7 , A 5 , and mirage ...
So we Need a Fighter which fulfill our requirement .....
we still have f 16 block 52 which enough for Suki and other junks of india.....
jf 17 is first step to self reliance...
and we get inspiration form india.. india fail many times in satellite mission but at last they achieve........
but this project is not complete yet we induct in air force as bomber in replacement of A5...
............
One Thing more Bro..
We are Muslim Country So our luck is not so Good as you have or other Country in World...
We do very hard work to achieve this achievement ...
I only 88Rs( 1$)/litre petrol bcz i want that my army be ready for World War 3..So do not post such blog....Other wise you lost your one viewer or reader........

Anonymous said...

I only buy 88Rs( 1$)/litre petrol bcz i want that my army be ready for World War 3..So do not post such blog....Other wise you lost your one viewer or reader.....

Anonymous said...

So, Indian should not be worry. So, no need for MCA or something buy some 3+ gen fighter for Pakistan

Anonymous said...

The aircraft has benn modified by pakistani engineers 35 pakistan air force engineers who were experienced with western aircrafts were send to china to make this aircraft. secondly the engine was modified by pakistani's and chinese engineers and it has been modified four times before it came to serial production. NOw when india cannot believe that the project is very sucessful it has started a propoganda against the aircrafts so that to cut down its export.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBNNzPLruVs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIUqCxpjRdc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwdqB8Hr6o8
the above link might help you out ..........

Anonymous said...
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Shazam said...

With all the talk of trauma and phyche, this reads more like a phychology today then a defense related article. Also there should be references to any and all research that is being quoted, I hate it when people just make numbers up and generalize everything, more like propaganda then an actual information.

Also I would like the author to write an exact article about Tejas, while developing LCA India has accidentally created world first "perpetual development" machine... for those didn't get the joke look up 'Perpetual motion' ;)

Anonymous said...

Article is written by a duffer indian showing their max. retard mental condition. I thing the blog has been hacked.

Anonymous said...

The author of this article is unaware that the DSI intake increases the speed to up to 1.8 mach .

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Michael said...

If looks is a good barometer of the quality of an aircraft then the jf-17 doesn't look very promising. It doesn't look sleek or high tech, rather it looks third worldish and low quality. If the PAF has no other option at the moment then it should induct a lot of this air frames to create swarming packs against the IAF in case of an all-out war.

Anonymous said...

yellow journalism

Anonymous said...

angoor khattay hain , typically indian , when they cant win by fair means , they fight it out in their strong area, their GIFT OF GAB , electronic and print media

Anonymous said...

lololololololololololololololololol...comments are so much fun. I can smell something is burning...

pakistniyonkabaap said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

I think we need to revisit thunder project..it's even foolish to compare it with Indian LCA..Thunder is a mig-21 with improved beauty.

Russel peters said...

lol.I thought Pakistan air force was completely destroyed in 1971 war against India. Pakistan air force is the weakest link of Pakistan military right now. IAF tejas with AESA radar and Astra BVR can smoke JF17 anytime out of the sky.

Hey, who said Indian air force is going to use su30 against Jf-17. It is overkill !!

Su30 MKI is for PLAAF's su27 and su 30 MKK not for any other bird in China's arsenal

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Some paki asshole is fuckingly repeating his comment asking questions to the moderator.. he is naaraz because the author is presenting jf17-bunder nude. While pakistanis think that their country is prophecised is quran so every thing they try to make(if they ever do is also prophecised in quran, so bunder is a quranic dictum, hence the anger..even Islam wants to get rid of pakistanis ,the bad offspring.

Anonymous said...

JF - 17 Thunder is Half Mig 29 , as Mig 29 has two Klimov RD-33 were as JF-17 Thunder as only one Klimov RD-33.Hence Su - 30 is not needed to trash JF-17 , Mig 29 is more than enough.

Anonymous said...

If people think speed is issue. Mig 25 as Mach 3.0 speed and altitude more than 20000 m , then why did India did not go for Mig 25/31. Also if engine is issue than Mig 23 and F-16 have Engine of around 125 KN than why did India did not select Mig 23 and go for mirage 2000?, answer is Mirage 2000 is superior than f-16.
Mig 21 can go for mach 2.1-2.3 LCA tejas can go upto 1.7 Mach, then sitting on mig 21 and then firing inferior AAM is useless, firing advanced AAM from LCA tejas which has stealth is sensible , but the fact JF-17 thunder is half Mig 29 is acceptable very easily Mig 29=2*JF-17 accepted.

Anonymous said...

That is the problem with Pakis... They take India as their Enemy, while there Enemy is their thinking, their Anti-India Movement, their Funda- mentalism. India has never invaded Pakistan, but Pakistan encroached Indian territory many times. Though it is known to everyone, that now-a-days' Pakistan is an organ of India and no-one can attack its own organ...

Anonymous said...

JF-17 aka Junk Fighter -17 (Blunder) will be one of the most pathetic A/Cs in the coming years with redundant tech and avionics.

It not just relies on unreliable Chinese avionics which even Chinese PLAAF refused to use, but have high Drag and low composites.

So Delusional pakistani fanboys/so called Doctors etc are claiming India is in Denial???? howcome? A lot spec. A/C such as JF-17 will remain a low tech copied Junk and nothing more.

Moreover, India has finalized EF-Typhoon or Dassault-Rafale for its MMRCA, FGFA-5th Gen. which has taken many flights and proved its prowess, et al....GOSH even Chinese (who manufactures this junk), PLAAF refused to INDUCT THIS PIECE OF JUNK....now who is living in Denial? ;)

Who is ignorant? When pakistanis who are failed people are know to live in denial, delusional state and utter bankruptcy (both monetary and mental)!!

Anonymous said...

At the pakistani's have a reasonable technological advancements on their own to counter it's traditional enemy india rather than being stranded while the west has sanctioned. The bigmouth Indian's should come forward with their own avionic technology if they so proud of themselves, instead we see that they are solely relied on Russian+Israeli tech...... this I call fools pride who won't even be able to survive if they were in Pakistan's position.

Anonymous said...

This article is a perfect example of twisted journalism ..... I wonder if the writer is playing a part for Indian propaganda!!!

Anonymous said...

the paki military arsenal consists of all scraps and junks supplied by china .....they can never match the indians.....instead they should invest in the development and betterment of their people...

Anonymous said...

Probably the article is written by a liar Indian and.....instead they should invest in the development and betterment of their people like the millions sleeping at the roadside of Bombay and other major cities.....also they should construct latrines for the needy to go in instead of passing their stools between the railway lines.

Anonymous said...

SO What

Why u pakistani accept the Indian help as flood relief.
You are seeing JF17 in Sky
and America done operation Osama.

They even get back their Crashed Helicopter..Same on U..

Anonymous said...

whatever the case may b, its about indian tejas vs china/paki jf 17....
n it seems that pak is wasting its time, money & manpower in this project...., where as indian tejas seems more promissing

Anonymous said...

I understand pakistani frustration. What choice do they really have? Who else will sell to this country of terrorists other than Chinese. We all know how reliable chinese made products. Even my toddler's toys dont work.

Anonymous said...

i hate when Indians talk about wars on every bloody forums what they fail to understand is that they suffered more casualties in every war when outnumbering Pakistan 20 to 1 and Pakistan being 1/10 the size of India.
So what if you won the war of 1971
Pakistan won the war of 1948 and even though Kargil and 1965 war where draws Pakistan still inflicted more casualties with 5,000 troops vs 30,000 troops on the Indian side and 265,000 troops with 500,000 troops on the Indian side in the war of 1965 so don't be proud over being killed more by your adversary when outnumbering them 20 to 1. Pathetic Indians

fighterclass said...

anon@ July 3, 2011 1:33 AM
poor paki, doesn't know how to count. tch tch.

Anonymous said...

hehehehehehe just give us a chance then we will see who can defend the homeland we took down eurofighters mmrca on whose praise i have read so many articles i was amazed when i was told that we took all three down and i kno jf 17 as i have flown it i only hope the writer could have flown it himself i am anxious for some foreign exercise if not a real war in which jf can show its caps rest assure it can take down f 16s block 15 of that i can guarantee

Anonymous said...

just more indian propaganda.The indian LCA jet fighter is such a failure,that the indian's are trying to make up propaganda about the jf-17 just like the indain media does.Shame on you india,You say Pakistan only funded the JF17 WRONG we also help develope the JF17,Also i would like to just mention, can you tell the indian media to stop spreading propaganda about Pakistan missile programe just because it's better than indian missile program which is built by Russian old soviet union technology, and thats a fact.What im really trying to say is that China does not help us build missiles,the only time China supplied us with misilles is in the 90s and they were M11 MISSILES.

Anonymous said...

and after that Pakistan started there own missile programe

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
YM said...

JF-17 is an advanced fighter which has BVR capability. it is good in close combat, it has a modern avionics suit, a full glass cockpit with digital fly by wire flight controls. it has a beautiful design which gives it good flying qualities both at high and low speed and both at low and high altitude it is capable of air to air refueling and has a modern EW suit. trust me when this fighter is fully matured every fighter pilot would dream to fly it.Indian fighters are no where near it, if the indians want they can come and try them selves, as far as this article is considered it is 100% pro indian, the tejas project is a complete failure so far v have only been hearing news about tejas. PAF has already inducted 2 sqns and very soon it will induct more sqns, indians best of luck against such a lethal fighter,

Engg Zohaib said...

smell like HAL Tejas are not being interested by any nation even developing south asian nations. That's hurt little.

khattak said...

I live in Peshawar and here in PAF Base when JF 17 Thunder takes off u can only hear its roar u can hardly spot it when it hits full throttle......and during high speed turns its cracking noise is just great.

mantesh87 said...

A fighter jet's performace cant be judged by the noise it makes!!!!

usman said...

dude its just beganing.. it have dsi intakes which is used in f35 ..dsi intake gave mur gud performance to engine..second jf17 shows its abilities in airshows,if u say india is not our enemy then go read y we make jf17 and atom bomb?u forget 6 planes in 30 seconds a world record? 1965 destroy 120 + indian aircraft just loosing 17..1971 destroy 110+ indian aircrafts while loosing 30 only..in afghan russia war fuck down 7 russian planes while no loss ..in gulf war pakistan destroy 10+ israeli plane while no loss..in 1999 pakistan destroy 2 indian plane while loosing nothing.. is'nt enough?

Navin Kumar said...

Tejas aircraft deficient in at least 100 technical parameters: Experts

A report on IBNLive
making of a junk

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/tejas-aircraft-deficient-in-at-least-100-technical-parameters-experts/384782-3.html

Muhammad Ali said...

Indian air force conducted operation (Iron Fist) in Pokhran region this year mid. 400+ fighter jets take part in this training and then later it was announced in indian news papers that indian air force can now take any challenge from china and pakistan air force simultaneously. But after a month or so, china invaded indian land and came inside 18km+ in india and chinese trops camped there. The chinese infultration was accompained by helicopters.
And what indian airforce did ? what was retaliation of indian army ? indian govt was so scared from the immagination of war with china that they rush for peace with china. There was no a single bullet fired from indian armed forces against chines infiltration.

I think that enough for indians to wake up and realize how much weak their armed forces.

abdul jabbar Khan said...

Just a few pointers here for indians here.......

1. USD 20M spent on R&D and Pakistan has a fully functional 4th generation fighter.

2. The JV signed in 2002 ... 2007 First Maiden successful Flight.

3. Sale Price for each craft is between USD 18M - 20M (Block - I) ... with AESA and all other goodies ... Thunder - II, pricing is expected at reach USD 20M - USD 25M ..... The first Induction of Thunder II expected by 2014 year end.

4. Please when u discuss radars and BVRs kindly check AESA signature an aircraft has during flight ..... SU-30MKI will get the Thunder on radar screen when Thunder will be at a distance of 107KMs ... and JF17 wiull have them on radar by 120KM ... so by then ta-ta bye-bye to SU-30MKI ...

LCA - TEJAS (Highlights)

1. Program started with french and israel in 1990 .... till now it will go through tests till 2015 even air-frame is not cleared ... then by 2015 first SQN may come into induction.

2. The AESA signature this aircraft leaves is as good as Mirage - V ... a Bomber.

3. Th eengine is still having issues india is looking for a better engine still .....

4. The avionics is a mix of one thousand and one different sources inetgration is an issue ... by end of 2013 India will be able to finalize the software to fully inegrate the Avionics.....

LAST BUT NOT LEAST ..... U PEOPLE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF UR SELF EVEN BEFORE U START WRITING A WORD.....

1. 1965....... U LOST AIR WAR WITH HUNTER AIRCRAFTS.(ONE OF THE BEST ALL ROUND FIGHTERS IN THE WORLD).. AGAINST AN INFERIOR F-86 SABRES ... SHAME ON U

2. 1971..... KILL RATIO WAS 5 IS TO 1 .... WITH ALL THE RUSSAIN TOP NOTCH TECHNOLOGY ..... SHAME ON YOU

3. LOOK AT UR INDEGINOUS WORKS... 1979 ... ARJUN TANK AND TILL DATE COULD NOT BE INDUCTED..... WHILE PAKISTAN IS INDUCTING AL KHALID - ii AND WORKING ON AL KHALID VIVIENNE.....

4. STARTED WITH ALL HELP FORM WEST LCA - TEJAS COULD NOT EVEN GET IT COMPLETED AS ON DATE EVEN THE AIRFRAME TECHNOLOGY HAS GONE OLD NOW.... WHAT TO TALK ABOUT INDUCTION ....

I CAN QUOTE FOUR MORE EXAMPLES HERE BUT WOULD NOT LIKE TO WASTE MY TIME ON U LOOSERS......

JUST ONE WORD .... ITS NEVER THE GUN ... ITS MAN BEHIND TEH GUN.... AS U R SEEING AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ.... WAIT N WATCH ..... UR TIME WILL COME ..... OTHERWISE ..... WAISAY AO NA KABHI HUMARAY HAAN KHUSHBOO LAGA KAI..... ;)

Heaven said...

JF17 is a miracle plane. It has astonished people around the world with its capability, its integration of most modern systems, in a price tag that is unthinkable. No air force can dream of such capability in such price, is there any? The plane right now is being followed by no less than 10 countries, while Pakistan is not going to have any of them take it before it completes its immediate needs. So, yes, there is a long waiting and increasing lineup. The world's air forces cannot find any other plane even in competition. JF17 II is even more superior. Air refueling capability will further its range, the composite use increasing its carrying capability, latest avionics making it lethal against any 4.5 generation plane, night or day, over the oceans or over the Himalayas one will see JF17 ruling the skies!!!!!

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